August 12, 1979


Maharaj: Are you satisfied? 

Questioner: Sometimes there is satisfaction, sometimes not. 

M: Who says this? Who tells you this? 

Q: I see satisfaction, a feeling in consciousness. I am indifferent. Whatever is happening, whatever appears in my consciousness, I'm not concerned, I'm not interested. I have nothing to do with it. 

M: It is not called indifference, it is detachment. There is no such thing as unhappiness. You don't worry about anything; that is the state, the real state. You feel no attraction toward anything in this world? 

Q: Whatever is happening, there is no gaining, no losing. 

M: How did this happen? 

Q: I don't know. 

M: Don't behave as others do, just because they say so. After hearing these teachings you should behave like a king or a lord. That should be your behavior, inwardly and outwardly. Aham Brahmasmi, “I am the Lord.” Have you understood or not? 

Q: I don't know. 

M: Do you want to ask anything more? 

Q: There is a great pressure in this feeling of being aware of myself. It is always accompanied by a great pressure in the head. 

M: You should be a witness of that. You are aware of the consciousness, so you are beyond that. You are a witness of that. 

Q: That feeling is there all the time. 

M: Your consciousness is not in the body. There is attraction to that body yet, so that feeling has not gone completely. Your consciousness has some attraction, some love for your body; therefore that pressure is there. 

You know your consciousness, you witness your consciousness now. Formerly that was not true because you were considering yourself as a body. Now you know that you are not the body. You know also that you are not the consciousness. 

Formerly, before you heard this, before you came to India, your name for consciousness was the mind. Now the word for consciousness is Jnana [knowledge]. 

M [to another]: So your purpose is served, you are satisfied? 

Q: Oh yes, a long time ago, when I left here. 

JVf: After having had many experiences, you have now come to the conclusion that what preceded the experiences is the same. You are not affected by the experiences that take place in the world? 

Q: Yes, I have come to that conclusion. 

M: All the attractions of the world are just ordinary things to you? You are not affected by them? Have you attained that state? Or are you still craving for the respect of others, are you still craving for more knowledge of more arts? 

Q: I can no longer hold that, so I am not craving it. I have nothing with which to retain it, but, who knows, if I found something with which to hold it, I might. 

M: Craving means that you think that it has some benefits, some opportunities. 

Q: It is fruitless, it all cancels out in the end; so it is useless. 

M: So, you have seen everything, understood everything. What is it that prevails in the end? 

Q: What prevails is not perceivable. 

M: What is there which is primary? What is at the root? 

Q: What is at the root is not an object. 

M: You have realized that? 

Q: No, I did not realize it, because it is greater than I. How could I see it? 

M: When you are going through various experiences, do you realize that there is something which was prevailing right from the beginning of which you were not aware? Do you become aware of something which is much greater than all these experiences? If you have found that, can you stay with it? Or are you still passing through the experiences? 

Q: I am not passing through the experiences, and, yes, I can stay with it. It's like when you are on a boat: you don't think that the water is moving—you know that the boat is moving—but you are aware that the water is there. You don’t have to repeat to yourself, “Oh yes, I am moving on the water.” What is there moves; underneath is what you move on. 

M: When you are passing through all this, do you realize that it is all artificial, that it is not the real? What do you experience? 

Q: I experience that I am passing through my own self- created projection. 

M: Don’t you see that what you realize as the illusion, the projection, is nothing but your own very small modification of your own Self? 

Q: Oh yes. 

M: When you realize this, don’t you get a glimpse of what is the most ancient? The unlimited? 

Q: I am not limited by the experience, or by the limitations of the experience. 

M: The world is ever-changing, ever new, but it is nothing but the thoughts of the ancient, the trick of the ancient. So where is the question of your not being limited? Are you denying its existence? 

Q: No, I am not denying its existence, I’m denying its reality. 

M: Suppose you have a child and that child goes to Timbuktu and becomes its king. He will still be your child, don’t you see? 

Whatever is happening, the witness of that happening must be there to say that it is happening. The ancestor of all action must be there to watch that action so that he can narrate it. 

Q: That witness, is it the Absolute or is it in consciousness? There must be someone who witnesses that experience? 

M: I am not telling about this witness. I’m telling you about the core, that core ancestor of ours. 

Out of a berry, out of the very forest of shrubs with berries, all these shrubs have grown. Because of that single berry. 

What is that principle which observes the creation and the state prior to the creation? The Absolute. The no-being- ness state, the no-consciousness state alone knows that there is a consciousness. That no-“I Amness” state. 

Many people will tell you about your mind inclinations, the mind flow, the activities in the realm of consciousness. That if you do this, you will get this; but has anyone told you of the state prior to the consciousness? 

The lowest state (on the spiritual path) is that of the mumukshu. The mumukshu is one who has made a beginning in the spiritual search and he identifies with the body- mind. He always tried to derive benefits or gains or losses out of the body-mind sense. He meets a Guru and the Guru tells him, “You are not the body-mind, you are the manifest. He establishes himself there and finds that he is not the body-mind, he is the manifestation; in due course, he also realizes, “I am not that ‘I Amness' I am not that consciousness nor the manifest world, but I am the Absolute.” Why are you quiet? Is it because of confusion or because you have no confusion and have attained that quietude? 

Q: Is this state of “I Amness manifest” detachment? 

M: What do you call that “I Amness”? 

Q: Consciousness. 

M: Do you know the consciousness? Do you witness the consciousness? 

Q: I don't know. 

M: To what principle do you give that name? 

Q: Everything that I perceive or know. Everything. 

M: Who knows consciousness? 

Q: I don't know. 

M: What you don't know, that is the prior-most. 

Q: It seems, in consciousness the experiences constantly change, and, at the same time, something remains the same. 

M: In ignorance you used to call it mind, but that is itself the knowledge of manifestation, that is the power of manifestation, this knowledge. It is the source of manifestation [Mula-maya]. It is Mahesvara, that is the highest Iswara principle whose name is Atman. 

Q: Whose name? 

M: The feeling you have of “I Amness”—“I Am” without words—that is Atman. It is very dynamic and moving. The consciousness is the mind of the Absolute; the power of knowledge, the power of memory, the message of “I Amness.” 

Q: The state of manifestation—is that a state of attachment? 

M: Its happening or creating is spontaneous, without attachment, but once it appeared the attachment started. 

You are all keeping quiet and not daring to ask questions. 

Q: Questions are prepared before; when you come here they fade away. 

M: In the womb of ignorance the knowledge was there and that knowledge, in maturity, had become this manifestation, but prior to ignorance that great ancestor is there. 

You have the knowledge of knowing only on the basis of no-knowing. First of all, you do not know; on that no-knowing platform this knowing sprouts, but the basis is ignorance only. Although ignorance, when it grows into maturity, becomes knowledge, and becomes profuse in its manifestation, still its ancestor is ignorance only. Prior to ignorance is that ancestral state of Absolute. 

Q: What are the signs to recognize a Jnani? 

M: To think that one is a Jnani, knowledgeable, or full of wisdom, is folly. Once one presumes that he is full of wisdom he wants social recognition, he wants a status: that is the folly. 

Who is a Jnani? The Jnani himself does not know he is and who is to recognize whom? Out of no-action, spontaneously, millions of creations are happening every moment and there is so much of chaos. Will a Jnani allow such a thing to happen? 

The Jnani understands that out of ignorance has come knowledge and in the process everything is happening. But since the basis is ignorance he does not interfere, because he himself does not know he is. The Jnani cannot focus his attention because he has no attention. 

Translator: What Maharaj calls the Knower, the Absolute, gives no attention to anything. Witnessing happens, he doesn’t witness. He is beyond that attribute, attention. And you, consciousness, cannot give attention to that. It cannot be known. 

Q: Can Maharaj witness his deep sleep state? 

M: Oh yes, I witness my deep sleep very nicely. 

Q: There was this experience, everything—body and mind—was there, and at the same time, nothing. 

M: That is an experience still. The experiencer is different from the experience. Experiences you can describe in thousands of ways, but the experiencer you cannot describe. 

Translator: Maharaj says he cannot describe the Absolute, only what appears can he speak about. It cannot be said, “He knows.” It is there; it’s not a question of knowing. 

M: Waking and sleep don’t know what was prior to them. Consciousness doesn’t know that state, when it was not there. The Absolute knows, but it doesn’t belong to the known. 

Unknowingly the knowing has started, spontaneously. Once the knowing disappears, then there is nothing. Knowing gives rise to the five elements. When the knowing disappears, you remain. So long as the knowing is there make use of it and inquire. I am stung by a scorpion, what is the stinging? The stinging is this “I Amness.” Because you cannot tolerate that sting of “I Amness” you are running from place to place. To nullify the poison of that sting, watch the 
sting is the waking state, sleep state, hunger, thirst, etc. Catch hold of that sting, that knowingness. 

Q: Is bondage necessary to become free? 

M: First you understand what the bondage is. Track yourself down continuously for twenty-four hours. Once you realize *1 cannot be a body or a mind,” then naturally, you are there. 

After all this talk, do you find any necessity for the sound of words? For any talk? Is there any necessity for words? For true spirituality, is there really any need for words? 

Q: No. 

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