
Questioner: The Guru is the greatest power, controlling the outer world as well as the inner. He is more powerful than a king. That’s why he is the greatest cheat. He cheats you out of nothing, but you think you lose everything.
Maharaj: If that is your experience, it is quite appropriate. He has appropriated everything, including yourself. That means that you are not a different entity than he. There is no more left of you, only the Guru.
Q: Love makes him the greatest cheat.
M: The love is given to each one according to his needs. If there is no need, can there be love?
Q: From that perspective, no; but the Absolute has always been associated with that concept. Why do we describe It as love?
M: He does not know himself. He does not know what he is. He doesn’t need anything. He does not need to call himself “I Am.” The Absolute state is called Jnani by ignorant people only. The Absolute doesn’t call himself the Absolute or Jnani.
Q: Why have those who are ignorant idealized the Jnani as love?
M: For the ignorant it is a matter of convenience. So long as he has not reached that Jnani state he must have some motive force: to get that, he calls Jnani full of love, compassion, kindness, etc. These are confirmed or imposed by the ignorant.
Q: Is that a correct viewpoint, from an ignorant standpoint?
M: Yes, for the ignorant. There is an idol of Vithobha; people go and pray to him: “Because of your kindness I survive, etc. The ignorance is talking. Why does the ignorant person keep that stone [idol]? Because he needs to be alive, he wants to perpetuate his “I Amness," to continue. That's why he is worshiping that stone: the need to be.
Q: Isn't it also perhaps one of the ways that the Divine leads the ignorant back to the Absolute?
M: Yes, there are a number of ways or paths for the ignorant.
Q: Wouldn't unconditioned love be faith in form?
M: From my standpoint love is the quality to be. Beingness is love. Only when this “I Amness" appears is there love. Can the love prevail if the “I Amness" is not there? You have the urge to be, to continue your beingness—that is the love.
M: All this manifestation is the ocean of that being. You may call it the ocean of Brahma or the ocean of Maya.
Q : Beyond Maya, beyond the ocean?
M: Where is the question of going beyond? There is beingness-beingness extinguished. It does not go beyond anything. Does it require an airplane, a Boeing, to go somewhere? From where has it come, where did it go? Prior to coming and going, you are.
That “I Amness" is pulsating “I Am-I Am.” The feeling of “I Amness” is there because of the essence of the food body and the vital breath. When the food essence and the vital breath are gone, that pulsation of “I Amness" will not be there. Beingness goes into no-beingness.
For the sprouting of any seed, water is necessary. Similarly, for the sprouting of this knowledge “I Am," water and food essence are necessary. In the essence of the food the quality of “I Amness" is in a dormant state. The Atman— the core Self—He himself sees “I Amness" through the juices or essence of the food.
Q: The consciousness is common to all, universal, spontaneous, one. Why does it appear in so many different forms?
M: That is its native quality. Although beingness is one, it manifests in plenty, many, multitudes.
Q: What is satva guna?
M: The quintessence of the food essence is that “I Amness," which is satva guna. Satva guna equals beingness. The beingness is activated in the manifest world through rajas and tamas [gunas]. The rajas is activity. The tamas is the pride you take in doership or authorship. Satva guna is only beingness, just to be. These three gunas have sprung out of the essence of food. If the food is not there that “I Amness" will go, all the qualities will vanish.
Q: That flame of “I Amness" which we see in the present condition with the help of our intellect—it seems that there is a development, a sort of evolution going on. What does Maharaj think—which way is it moving?
M: Toward destruction. Whatever might be the evolution, finally it will be heading toward dissolution.
Turning to what you were speaking about earlier: Is there something you either do or don’t want to protect?
Q: I don't know.
M: All this depends on the consciousness, and you don't want to leave the consciousness.
Q: Not even the consciousness of consciousness do I want. I thought of bringing cotton to stuff in my ears when Maharaj is speaking of the Self.
M: Who stays this?
Q: I don't know. Why does it have to be somebody?
M: Who says this?
Q: Words, just words.
M: What is the use of words if consciousness is not there?
Q: Consciousness is there. Why imply that that consciousness does not know?
M: What is the meaning of this? Explain what you have to say.
Q: What is the need of attaching any concept to whatever there is?
M: If you feel “It should be or it should not be/' what is there at the bottom of that?
Q: Whatever there is, there is.
M: It is evident that you feel that you are, and therefore it sprouts in you. When you feel that you are, all the trouble starts. If that feeling is not there, no trouble exists.
Q: Why should it give trouble? You attach names and concepts to that which is. Would you leave it alone?
M: Who says this?
Q: Understanding that appears in consciousness.
M: So who is really troublesome? Is the world troubling you, or the consciousness which appears on you?
Q: Nothing troubles me if I shut up.
M: That you are sitting there—that itself is going to be troublesome to you. This is your trouble: You are not in a position to sustain that consciousness and you cannot bear it. When the body was not there, when the consciousness was not there, what were you? You are not in a position to understand that.
Q: Before the body was and consciousness appeared, It was whatever It was.
M: Now that you are, you are conscious. Is it because you want it or did it just come automatically, spontaneously to you?
Q: It appears to be spontaneous.
M: You are conscious now, spontaneously, not because you want to be. That’s a fact, isn’t it?
Q: Yes. I think all this idea of spirituality—of trying to give a meaning to that consciousness—is the only trouble, when consciousness wants to extend itself and be all those things.
M: No, that is not troublesome for you. The troublesome thing is the consciousness appearing on you. It is only because of that that you are giving names or not giving names, doing something or not doing something.
Q: That is the root of the trouble. If consciousness would just be itself and not try to apply concepts to everything, there would be no trouble.
M: This is all imagination.
Q: It is very simple. All the experiences that we call life happen in consciousness, and the meaning of life is just to experience consciousness everywhere. So, when the end comes, then that’s it. Cannot consciousness just see and face that end?
M: Can you stay in that?
Q: But what doesn’t allow me to stay in that void is looking, searching, trying to do this or that.
M: When the consciousness is there, so is the vital force; thoughts are flowing and a lot of words are coming. That is your mind. Just understand that you are not concerned with the consciousness. It will still be there, it will still continue, but you are not identifying with it, saying, “I am this or I am that.”
There should not be any difficulty because the self-evident fact is that you are . Why don’t you stop there and find out that point? See what that state is.
Translator: Maharaj wants to know if you understand what he is saying to this other person. You.
Q: Yes, he is speaking of consciousness.
M: Have you understood the meaning of consciousness?
Q: Consciousness is everything that appears.
M: Who is saying this?
Q: The feeling is, I am.
M: Who experiences this?
Q: Consciousness experiences itself.
M: Yes. Listen to these dialogues for some time more. Whatever is going on, listen for some time more. Thinking
first mistake. Space is created and thereby the consciousness, which is really non-personal, has become a person, limited to the body and mind. You feel that the consciousness is limited to the body and mind, but if the consciousness is accepted as non-personal, then there is no trouble. Because the knowledge “I Am” is there, we conduct all activities. In the morning when you wake up you get that first guaranty, that conviction of “I Am.” Then, because you are not in a position to sustain or tolerate that “I Amness/ 7 you bestir yourself. You get up and move around here and there and the activity starts. You involve yourself in all the activity because you want to sustain that “I Amness. 77 Later on that “I Amness 7 forgets itself in deep sleep; only then are you peaceful.
Q: There is peace in meditation?
M: Why are you going to meditate? To tranquilize the
spontaneously feel the superficiality of “I Amness".
Q: How?
M: That attention, that “I Amness", is always there in the waking state, but we are not on the alert to watch it. There is no other attention to be followed. Be attentive to that attention “I Am."
Q: Is there something that remains in the deep sleep state?
M: Whatever is there in the waking state merges in the deep sleep and is in a dormant condition.
Q: What is right action?
M: Let the actions happen through you. Don't take yourself to be the doer. There will be actions through you; don't say that these actions are good and those are bad. It is not your responsibility. The one who thinks he is the doer is a slave to mind-inclinations, mind-conditions. The Jnani witnesses the consciousness acting; he has no involvement in the actions of the consciousness.
Q: It seems to be an addiction of the consciousness to worry about things around.
M: Yes, addiction, and also entertainment. Suppose I spill water. Immediately I take the towel and wipe it up, but I do not feel that I have done something foolish. It has happened. Just as the towel is soaking up the water without thinking that it is doing so.
Q: What a strange love for this “I Amness"
M: Although it is strange, it gets manifested in concrete forms. We all hang on to concepts about saving the world, doing good. With all the great concepts and ideas great people have had, where are the saved and the saviors today? What do you over there want?
Q: I would like everything to be in harmony, non- chaotic.
M: Don’t hang on to name and form. Get rid of name and form.
Q: Why is it so difficult to understand that simple thing?
M: Because whatever you have understood, you are clinging to, embracing. Get rid of that. Whatever you have understood from this world, you are hanging onto. Give it up. The way that you understand yourself, give that up also.