
Questioner: Are consciousness and the witness the same?
Maharaj: For whatever is visible the consciousness is the witness. There is another principle which witnesses consciousness, and this principle is beyond the world.
Q: How do you witness consciousness?
M: How do you witness the fact that you are sitting? Effortlessly or with effort?
Q: Effortlessly.
M: The same way. Whenever you put in effort is from the bodily standpoint. The knowledge “I Am” is the soul of the entire world. The witness of the knowledge T Am” is prior to the knowledge “I Am.” Try to understand yourself as you are, do not add any qualifications. Just as you prepare various dishes out of various ingredients, you want to make something. Witnessing or awareness is just as you observe your deep sleep. Just like that.
Q: I do not understand.
M: It is not understandable. You must contemplate yourself. Whatever comes on the screen of contemplation will surely disappear. The Contemplator remains.
Q: Is not the Contemplator also a concept of mind?
M: Concept and mind are beams of light from the Contemplator.
Q: Is “I Am" the sum total of everything you perceive?
M: Yes. “I Amness” spontaneously appears and disappears; it has no dwelling place. It is like a dream world. Do not try to be something, even a spiritual person. You are the manifested. The tree is already there in the seed. Such is this what you see. Having understood this, what could be your need?
Q: Nothing.
M: You must stabilize in this conviction. Knowledge involved with siddhis [spiritual powers]. Although you may not purposely go in for siddhis, around you some miracles may happen. Do not claim the authorship of them. A devotee of yours who is at a distance of a thousand kilometers from you can have your darshan in form. Whenever your devotee praises your knowledge, the knowledge takes concrete shape. Do not think that you are doing something. Sound fills the entire space; similarly, the knowledge “I Am” will fill the entire place. Once you understand this there is no death for you. If you think yourself an individual you will surely have death.
A spiritual seeker wants to be something; just be as you are. If people come to you, then automatically words come out of you. Although you may not have studied the Vedas, whatever comes out of you will be the same as what is in the Vedas and Upanishads. At the time of speaking you will not have the slightest idea that you are a Jnani or a knowledgeable person.
Q: I am feeling the burden of “I Amness.” How to get rid of it?
M: Where is the question of getting rid of it when you have not planted it?
Q: I know, but my mind feels that I should get rid of it.
M: Can the mind recognize the highest principle? Do not follow the mind; mind is following its own natural course. You get identified with the mind and speak for it.
With what insistence can the mind make changes in the sky or space?
The space is the eyeglass of the “I Am” through which it observes the world. The five senses cannot know you, you know the five senses.
Q: By ‘‘you” what do you mean? Which “you”?
M: Since you feel duality, I mean the listener in you.
Q: I am not outside consciousness.
M: Actually you are out of it, and recognize it. If you say that you are consciousness, then you are the entire world. You are separate from “I Am.” “I Am” is itself an illusion. The knowledge “I Am” and the world are tricks of Maya. There is no substance to them. There are no words actually, you speak words for your satisfaction.
You know that there are hunger, thirst, waking and sleep states. Without these, what are you? You think that these are all your eternal needs; this is the trick of Mula Maya
How long will you be associated with these?
Q: Memory makes the world seem real. Unless memory registers the color green, there is no color green.
M: Memory is inside “I Am.” Relative repetition is the play of Maya. If you are not able to sleep for eight days will you survive?
Q: No.
M: That is, you will be beyond the waking and sleep states; in short, the illusion will vanish.
Q: When I get up in the mornings where does the “I Am” consciousness come from?
M: You are not able to understand it. Like a film, it is already there and is reproducing. This chemical is called the greatest principle by the Vedas; it is the Hiranyagarbha
appears in the waking and dream states.
Q: How do I remember the previous things?
M: It is the skill of the “I Amness.” What identity do you hold for yourself?
Q: I am the witness.
M: Of what?
Q: All the activities of the body-mind.
M: This is the quality of the body-mind only and is not the Self knowledge. Worms appear in stale food. Similarly, the body is stale food; the Self wriggles in it. When the body is decomposing, the worm “I Amness ” is at work. The taste is “I Amness,” which it enjoys without a tongue. We take too much pride in the taste of this stale food. What knowledge do you want?
Q: My true Self.
M: As long as you think that the body is you, you will not get true knowledge. In Marathi there is a phrase, “borrowed wife,” she who has to be returned. Similarly, this body is a borrowed thing; you have to return it. This identity with the body has to go.
Q: How is one to be successful in getting rid of this identification?
M: Try to investigate deep sleep and waking states. These are time-bound. Without the experience of waking and sleep states, try to explain what you are.
Q: Then I am wordless.
M: Are you sure? The Vedas also said “This is not,” That is not,” and at the end kept quiet, as it is beyond words. Without deep sleep and waking states do you know that you are, or do you experience “I Am”?
Q: No.
M: What is born: yourself or the two states? You will be liquidated soon if you come here. What will you pick out of these states as yourself?
Q: Nothing.