
VISITOR : Sitting in Maharaj's presence, I had a certain bodily experience
How should I understand this? MAHARAJ : In trying to understand the experience, whatever significance your words and concepts give to it will be acceptable to you. But that is not the knowledge
That is why I am not very keen to ask people to stay for any extended period of time, because if you do stay that long you will not be able to understand. In the course of your initial eight or ten days, whatever is somewhat understood will first have to be properly digested: until then any further talks will not be absorbed. Assuming that a person is knowledgeable, then what will happen is this: having left this place, he will not be able to remain alone for long. He craves company to whom he can deliver the goods of spirituality. He likes to seek out somebody with whom he can talk and discuss spirituality; otherwise, he feels very unhappy. you feel happy and satisfied if you don't encounter other sadhakas? The question was asked [by the translator] whether it is not necessary for a serious seeker to go through this stage where one likes to dole out whatever knowledge one has, to share it with others? My answer was that this is a part of the process, but that it also must come to an end, this desire to discuss and exchange views on spirituality
That highest state is the unborn state. in which there is no experience
[According to the translator, Maharaj is not feeling well today; he is very weak, almost in a daze.] Before the sickness or my present condition, I was there. This sickness has come as a temporary phase, but I am prior to that. People normally feel, when sickness comes, that they are going to die. But I am not going to die; there is no death to me, but it is the sickness that will accept it
If a sick person will remember this principle only - that prior to the sickness he was and his true nature is ever prior to the sickness - if he truly realizes this, then the impact of the sickness will be less. On the other hand, when so-called “knowledgeable” people are sick, they accelerate their death by imagining that they are going to die
What do you understand by the word “dream”? How do you understand a dream? Is not the dream something like a drama, a play? In the light of the consciousness, all kinds of play take place; the dream is one of these, and in the end it again merges into the consciousness
To one who realizes that this consciousness is an indication of his presence, that it is in fact conscious presence - when I am conscious, it means that I am present - all bewilderment ceases. Thus, within that presence as such, there is no individual present who sees something; that is, there is neither the seer nor the seen in the impersonal presence. Again. I repeat, that impersonal presence is merely an indication of presence as such, not of any individual. It is an assurance. a guarantee of one's presence. If I have consciousness, it means I am certain that I am present
To one who really understands what has been said here, a dream is no different from what is seen in the waking state: both are plays in the consciousness. Because of the light of the consciousness, we call one thing the waking state, another thing the dream, but in essence both are events happening in the consciousness and essentially they are not different
In this impersonal presence as such, the only thing present is the light of consciousness, without any form or shape. Whatever is seen is seen in that light
Many people are under the impression that they are acting in the play; but this is a mistaken notion. All that happens is that the light of the consciousness shows various things happening
V : The actor is part of the play? M : Why does something appear to us as actual or real? Because something that one sees every day or often conveys a sense of reality or actuality. Therefore we accept it as more actual, more real, than something that appears in a dream, but essentially they are the same
How is a jnani? The jnani is like the cigarette lighter, without the flame
When the lighter is lit, the consciousness comes in. And whatever happens is seen in the light of that consciousness. But whether or not there is the light of the consciousness, the jnani is ever there. In deep sleep we are like the condition of the unlit lighter. There is no light, therefore nothing happens. But even in that state, the light may come on; from the moment that slight consciousness arises, the dream occurs and one appears to act in that dream, as part of the dream
I repeat, I am not talking about what happens to an individual. I am only talking about the total manifestation and how that manifestation arises. Because of the impersonal consciousness, there is the impersonal presence. But a difficulty arises, because, while the composite consisting of body, vital breath and consciousness has no shape or form, we identify all three with the body, and so we become unhappy. But once we realize the basis of it - that the total manifestation is only in the impersonal consciousness, which is Presence, impersonal presence - there is no longer any difficulty. On the other hand, so long as this charge of having a male or female body is not removed from that which exists impersonally, the trouble will continue and unhappiness will persist
This composite of body/vital breath/knowingness does not know itself as “I am” in the absence of that knowledge “I am.” The vital force is also our self: without form. Similarly, the knowingness has no form. Now this vital force depends on the food essence body to sustain itself; and on the manas, that is the mind : it also feeds on the mind. This vital force is the agent for all activities
And this knowledge “I am” is a mere witness, yet this entire composite must be available. To repeat: that vital force does not know itself. it does not go into activity in the absence of the knowledge “I am.” And that knowledge is available only if a sustaining body is available. Now so long as you do not remove the charge that this vital force, and the knowledge “I am,” is male or female, on account of bodily association, you are bound to suffer
Maybe the examples I have given are somewhat pedestrian, but my intention was only to create a stronger impact
How would a jnani feel when he gives up his body? What type of pleasure or bliss does he experience? Imagine a newly wed couple: the pleasure which they derive from their wedding night is as nothing compared to the highest bliss a jnani gets when be quits his body or his life force. I call it the highest bliss in the best festival, on the "highest day" (the term normally used in spiritual parlance)
Compared with the love play of the wedding night, whatever pleasure the couple realize in coming together, the happiness a jnani derives in getting separated from the vital breath and the knowingness is thousands of times superior. They [the couple] are coming together, he is coming apart! Take the example of this cigarette lighter. The latter is something like nirgunarajas, that is the “heat state.” My original. true state is nirgunarajas. Now on the lighter, and because of the lighter, that flame appears. In the flame, the knowledge “I am” is there, the mind is there and the vital force is there. The vital force carries out all the activities. The mind communicates, and the knowledge "I am" is merely a witness; this is the actual state of affairs
For the emanation of any talk the flame must be available. That is, the “I-amness” the vital breath and the mind must be present; then only the talk can come out. My state is nirgunarajas; I am like that lighter only: the flame may be there or it may not. I am nirguna and nirrajas, I have no attributes; in my state that beingness is absent. Similarly, I don't require any rajas; that means, I don't want any entertainment activities. In my true state, nothing is
When the knowingness or “I-am-ness" state is there, and the vital breath and mind are also present - this being the rajas state, as compared to the nirrajas state of the lighter - some occupation or entertainment is essential. This can be observed in all of us. We can never stay idle: we are always occupied with one thing or another. When the vital breath quits the body, the “I-am-ness” also goes; what remains is only the nirrajas-nirguna state
The former I call the flame state; that is, the “I-am-ness.” Earlier I said it is the sagunabrahman state. That is, the body is there, the vital breath is there, the mind is there, and that knowingness or "I-am-ness" is there. All that is being entertained by maya. The state in the absence of this beingness or the maya is that nirguna-nirrajas state - mayatita (prior to maya), the Absolute state
A hundred years back, what were you? At that time, you did not have the knowledge "you are." The memory that you are was missing. Presently, in the temporary phase, you have the knowledge “you are.” But to have this knowledge, what are the prerequisites? The essence is required, sattva-guna
This means the quintessence of the food essence is necessary to sustain the “Iam- ness” or this beingness. And that essence in turn depends on the food body
But all these together - that is, food body quintessence, and the knowledge "I am," the vital breath and the mind - these are all a temporary phase only; so long as food essence is available, the knowingness will last
Now how to escape from all this? This knowingness is to discover itself; it should realize itself. Then, in the process of its realization it is able to quit this state and abide in the Absolute, in the non-knowingness state. So one must abide in oneself first, in the knowingness state
Whenever you sit for meditation, you hold on to the form-concept that you are a male or a female. Give up these concepts ! To do such meditation is almost impossible; only a rare one will do it, without that identification with the bodymind
V : I get a glimpse of your state, as to what you are - intellectually, that is
But in my daily life, I am so much under stress... my wife thinks this way, somebody else thinks that way - I am always under tension. So how to get rid of this? M : I am telling you a simple thing. Get rid of the notion that you are this corpse. The body is dead always, the body is inert. It is alive only by means of your "I-am-ness." You are not the body. Hold on to this concept very firmly, and then whatever happens, it is not yours
Somebody is itching to ask questions. [laughter] V : There is quite a big gap between that state and my present state. There is a considerable time gap; I have to do sadhana, purify myself and all that. How can I manage to do all these religious and worldly duties in my busy life? M : You have recourse to naturopathy ; with that not only will you do good to yourself but also to the society. Do all the social work, and you will enjoy lots of merit
As to me. I am fed up with this entire waking state and sleep state. Without these two states. I was in the perfect, peaceful state. Did you ever hear the words “sorrow” and "misery" in the absence of the deep sleep and waking states? The knowledge “I am” is the product of interaction within the five elemental state
You are not that ! You, as the Absolute, are not the knowledge "I am." V : Most of us are not satisfied. we are fed up with life; there is some urge, but it is not sufficiently strong, to withdraw from this daily grind
M : How can you dispose of this problem? You resent that you are the body
that you are the mind, you are this sattva-guna. I am not the body. that standpoint you must have
It is very simple. The body and in the body... it is like a coin. On one side
you have the vital breath for making possible all activity; and on the other side is the knowledge “I am.” Only when the vital breath is there, the knowledge "I am" is present. When the vital breath leaves the body, the knowledge "I am" also disappears. And both of these are the product of the food essence body. I am not that; this entire composite I am not. This you have to realize
Who are your ancestors? They are the food particles - that food essence
Those food essences are your real ancestors. On the earth there is vegetative growth. I call it vanaspati. The quintessence of that vanaspati is the food essence; out of that grows vachaspati. The latter means: insects, worms, bees, mammals, etc. - all types of creatures. They survive on this essence of vanaspati
Now in that vanaspati juice, that quintessential vegetation juice, there is also a particle, a granule, which contains the sattva-guna, the rajas-guna and tamasguna
The particle quintessence contains all three qualities. The sattva-guna is mere witness, beingness, a touch of "I-am-ness." Rajas-guna is activity; this guna leads you to activity. And tamas-guna represents the claiming of authorship. taking the credit, for the activities
Unlike what one can read in the scriptures, your ancestors are in these grains of wheat and rice; in the essence of those are our ancestors. Therein the real essence of our creation is contained